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FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace

News/Business. An analysis of top newsmakers and events. (CC) (Stereo)

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Libya 33, U.s. 24, Qaddafi 23, Obama 10, United States 9, Nato 7, Yemen 7, Tripoli 6, Greta 5, Us 5, Joe Lieberman 4, Nina 4, Gingrich 4, Newt Gingrich 4, Bahrain 3, Ajdabiya 3, Benghazi 3, John Mccain 3, South Carolina 2, Clinton 2,
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  FOX News    FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace    News/Business. An analysis of top  
   newsmakers and events. (CC) (Stereo)  

    March 28, 2011
    2:00 - 3:00am EDT  

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[chanting gerry] >> chris: i'm chris wallace and this is "fox news sunday." the 202 race for the white house. will one of the top republican contenders make a run for it? we will talk policy and presidential politics with the gop big thinker, former speaker of the house newt gingrich. a "fox news sunday" exclusive. then, turmoil in the middle east. from syria to libya and beyond, what should be the role of the u.s. military? we'll get an update from the region and talk with two of the senate's most influencial voices on foreign policy, john
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mccain and joe lieberman. and healthcare reform one year later. we will ask our sunday group what is the long-term prognosis for the president's signature legislation. all, right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. before we talk with our guests, we want to bring you the latest on events in the middle east. in syria, government soldiers have been deployed around the cities that have seen the biggest protests. in yemen, talks for a peaceful transfer of power failed saturday. now, authorities worry about al-qaeda gaining strength in that country. and in libya, bombing by u.s. and allied planes has paveed the way for rebel forces to retake the key oil town. for more on libya let's bring in fox news correspondent steve harrigan in tripoli. >> a rapid advance for the
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rebels. moving quickly toward what they say is an eventual battle here in tripoli. they have taken the key town of ajdabiya. the air strikes have targeted qaddafi tanks and rocket launchers as well as artillery that really paveed the way for them to take the town of ajdabiya. also more important the resupply trucks from the government going down the long desert road. they have been hit hard so qaddafi forces without fuel and ammunition have had little choice but to retreat in the face of running out of supplies. at times the qaddafi forces are actually getting out of their military vehicles and getting in civilian cars to flee without being targeted. the next big test is likely to be qaddafi's hometown where his popular base is strong as well as his military. if the rebels can take that all bets are off and there could be a real battle here in the capital. as far as the qaddafi government goes, they are objecting saying it is an outrage what is happening. they say the allied forces are
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taking sides in a civil war, helping the rebels openly, going far beyond their u.n. mandate. to boost morale in the field the qaddafi government has given promotions and pay raises to all officers in the fight. chris, back to you. >> chris: steve harrigan reporting from tripoli. thanks for that. joining us now fresh off a weekend visit to iowa, possible presidential candidate and former speaker of the house newt gingrich. welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> good to be back here. >> chris: start with libya. you are taking heat for what a lot of people say is a flip about what the u.s. should do in libya. >> exercise a no fly zone this evening. communicate to the libyan military that qaddafi was gone and that the sooner they switched sides the more likely they were to survive. >> i would not have intervened. i think there were a lot of other ways to affect qaddafi.
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>> chris: some are saying that whatever the president does or doesn't do you are against. >> well, you should have played the earlier clip that was on greta's show in late february and i said we should be for replacing qaddafi without using the u.s. military. now, the president on march 3 changed the rules of the game. the president came out publicly and said qaddafi must go. and so i was citing there my original position which is if you are not in the lake don't jump in. once you are in the lake swim like crazy. now, that the president has said qaddafi must go, our goal should be the defeat of the qaddafi government and the replacement of qaddafi as rapidly as possible ideally by using western air power with arab forces and egyptian and moroccan and other advisors to help with the ground campaign. i see no reason for american ground troops to go in. i think the president has positioned us where once the president of the united states says qaddafi must go we have an
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obligation as a country to get rid of him. >> chris: on greta's show on march 7 which is the first clip you said that we should start the no fly zone immediately. all she asked you you is what should we do about libya. you made no mention about what the president has said. you said we should intervene. let me finish and then you can answer. >> right away. even if all you were doing is being a good soldier why on earth would you say i wouldn't have intervened after the president has committed u.s. servicemen and women this last week. >> there is an earlier greta show in february which is where this all started. i said we should find ways to get rid of him using the kind of strategies that regan and eisenhower used which is to help freedom fighters by using american force. that became impossible once the president said publicly qaddafi has to go. four days after the president said qaddafi must go. my answer was in the context of if qaddafi must go you
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established the zone but notice immediately after that i said and you take steps immediately to get rid of him. i'm against a no fly zone if it is a barbecuing bash 90 or 120 day or six month experience of a truce. the goal should be to get rid of qaddafi. thathood be communicated publicly so qaddafi's forces lose their mothe morale. you can't find any uneconpetitive vocal state anywhere that qaddafi must go. the alliance is saying this is human terri, not directly. >> chris: enough of the past and the february greta show versus the march greta show. if you are president gingrich and speaking to the american people as president obama will be tomorrow night. first of all, would you say that i want the u.s. to be in control rather than cede control of the entire operation to nato? and secondly, you say qaddafi must go as president what would you be willing to do? >> i think -- i hope the
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president tomorrow night will be dramatically clearer than he has been up to now. i hope the president will say, first of all, he is consulting the u.s. congress not just the arab league and the united nations. i hope he will say second that it is clear that the qaddafi dictatorship has to leave and we are prepared to do whatever it takes to make sure that the qaddafi leadership leaves. >> chris: when you say whatever is takes, should we strike at qaddafi? >> yes, once you engaged air power use the air power in its most effective way. you don't need to send in ground forces. we have been supporting and sustaining egyptian, mor morocn jordannian forces for years. you don't need much ground force if you have air power. you do need accuracy in the bombing campaign and be able to drive qaddafi's forces to defeat. >> chris: but full out to defeat, topple, qaddafi and his regime? >> otherwise the campaign makes no sense at all. if they leave qaddafi semi in
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charge. this is a ruthless dictator with a powerful super police and he will win a long-term stalemate. once you have the momentum and the other point i would make is american force has to be used as rapidly and as effectively as possible. you cannot sustain a six month or a year or two year campaign in libya. and i think the president should call on the congress for supple and thal because the word from the white house that they were going to take this out of the current pentagon budget i think is impossible 86 don't think the pentagon can sustain a war within its current budget. >> chris: there are protests and violent government crackdowns across the middle east in syria, in yemen and bahrain. what should the u.s. do in those countries and does it matter that syria is an adversary and the other two are allies? >> well, i think as a general principle we want to be in favor of people being in charge of their own lives and that has a lot of complications in some parts of the muslim world because you do have al-qaeda and you do have extremist
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simpleso it is not a sim thing. we should be in favor of moving towards freedom and moving towards self-government. again, this is part of why i was cautious back in february. i don't think you want to have the u.s. in syriand a the u.s. in bahrain and the u.s. in yemen. this thing is going to unfold in all sorts of complicated ways and we don't have either the wisdom or resources to get into every single place that has a problem. >> chris: let's talk about 2012, you have been, forgive me, been playing hamlet for several months about whether or not your are going to run for the white house next year. are you running for president? >> win is month we will have that taken care of and we will be running. we are not running yet. we are doing it carefully. we had a variety of reasons to do it in a methodical way. i have been in south carolina, new hampshire, iowa, the places you need to go as well as texas and florida and north carolina.
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and the water is pretty warm. my hope is that in a month we will be ensuing it rapidly. >> you just said in a month we willle be running. >> i hope in a month we will make that decision. we will still finishing up the exploratory phase and we have specific things we are getting done that we think we need to do before we make the final decision. >> chris: do you intend to run for president? >> it is my hope that this will work out and i will be able to run. >> chris: the fact is that you just hired rick per arery, the governor of of texas campaign manager and he will play a big role in a gingrich campaign. why wouldn't you run that the point? you are -- >> there are very specific things we are getting done in terms of our private businesses and our private -- >> chris: but you are basically saying to use the phrase in a commercial it is logistics. >> we sadly live in a world where lawyers define an amazing number of things and the federal election commission has very specific rules about
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different stages. so to zombies i some extent wee overlawyered. i was delightd that rob joined in a senior advisory position. he ran a great campaign for rick perry. he understand texas politics very thoroughly. and i think he brings a level of talent of finishing up the exploratory process that is formidable. >> chris: and you wouldn't have hired him if you weren't running for president. >> this is a serious exploration. and we are bringing together very competent people. kateen in south carolina is helping, dave in new hampshire is helping. >> chris: the rap on newt gingrich, the look on your face, is that you are brilliant and you are brimming with ideas but that you lack discipline, you have heard this -- and that discipline is vital in a presidential campaign. i want to talk about your personal life. i hate doing it but you know it will be anish are shoe in the
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campaign and -- an issue in the campaign and so you are going to go there. you were asked recently about the fact that you cheated on your first and your second wives and here is how you responded. >> there is no question that at times in my life partially driven by how passionately i ilt about this country that it worked far too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate. >> chris: speaker you have had more than a decade to come up with an answer and in all honesty there are people that thought that answer was kind of lame. i know it is heartfelt. let me explain why. you love your country and so you are working hard and so you stray. that wouldn't work with my wife. >> no, and it didn't work in my life. and i went on to say that i had to seek god's forgiveness and reconciliation and i had to believe that being genuinely repentant mattered. as you know, chris and i have a
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great marriage. two wonderful daughters and two great wonderful grand children. have i matured? am i a person that they can trust and rely on as a leader and discipline is part of it and that is a legitimate question and i expect the american people will in the end be remarkably fair and rend arer judgment and decide whether or not newt gingrich is somebody tha that they think cn solve the country's problems. >> chris: something else that bothers people. you were leading the charge to push bill clinton from office for lying about an affair and, yes, he lied in a court depositionin a dep position where he had sworn to tilt truth and nothing but the truth but at the very same time you were leading that charge you were having an affair. isn't that hypocrisy. >> obviously it is complex and obviously i wasn't doing things to be proud of. on the other hand i said very
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clearly and i knew this in part having gone through a divorce. i had opinion in depositions and been in situations where you had to swear to tell the truth. i understood in a federal court in a case in front of a federal judge to commit a felony, which is what he did, perjury was a felony and the question of raised was simple. should a president of the united states be above the law. i don't think a president of the united states can be above the law and that is not about personal behavior. it is about whether -- it is not about what he did in the oval office. you can condemn that and say it is totally inappropriate but it was about a much deeper and more profound thing which is does the president of the united states have to o obey te he is popular as eeoc is can they flaunt the law to where the leader of the world can get away with anything that they want to. i don't know what you would have have me do. i think the notion that the president of the united states
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committing perjury. remember, he is a lawyer. this is not some accidental thing. and i thought the outcome was about right. the house in effect indicting him. >> chris: i'm going to ask you man to man did you ever think to yourself i'm living in a really glass house, maybe i shouldn't be throwing stones, yes -- no, i thought to myself if i cannot do what i have to do as a public leader i would have resigned. i think you have to look at whether or not people have to be perfect in order to be leaders. i don't think i'm perfect. i have admitd that i have had problems. i have admitd that i have sought forgiveness. but i also think that over time if you look at my record'm a pretty effective leader and i fight for this country and fight for the changes that we need with ten asitacity and taa buff tough beating from you and
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others to stand up in the arehe that and stand up for what i believe is important aid think this country is worth that kind of a fight and we will find out six months to a year from now whether people are forgiving and whether they put in context events that are 10 to 15 years old and we'll see. >> chris: thank you for being so forth right and answering that. i want to ask you one more thing. we only have got about a minute left. you say that congressional republicans should take a hard line on government spending and all funding for obama care this year. would you let the government shut down and would you you refuse to increase the debt limit in order to push those two objectives? >> i would try to create a circumstance where the president had a choice and the president either had to agree to very substantial changes or the president would have to bear a fair amount of responsibility. i think people misunderstand the 1995 shutdown. republicans came out of that
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and for the first time since 1928 were reelected because we stood for something. we today for balancing the budget and reforming welfare and cutting taxes. all i would say to republicans today is you better figure out what you are prepared to do so people believe you are serious or you will end up caving to whatever obama wants and i think that would be a disaster. >> chris: and a government shutdown and refusing the debt limit. >> if the case was to cave in to obama and allow obama to dictate the terms or go to the country and say this is how serious this is they are far better off to go to the country and draw a sharp line. if they cave to obama they lose all of the credibility of the country. >> speaker gingrich, thank you so much for coming in and being so straightforward with us. thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> chris: of course, we wanted to get the white house view on libya, however, they chose to offer secretary of state clinton and defense secretary gates to abc, cbs and nbc but
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not to fox despite the fact that we routinely have more viewers than two of those sunday shows they felt no need to explain to the millions of you who watch this program and fox news why they have sent u.s. men and women into combat. we now the you would like to know. up next, we will hear from senators john mccain and joe lieberman on libya, syria and lieberman on libya, syria and the growing unrest in the to talk about the venture card "match my miles" challenge. they're so confident their miles are better, they'll match the miles you've eard on your airline credit card -- up to 100,000 -- on a new venture card. it's unbelievable. believe it. venture card miles are good on any airline, anytime. it's like an upgrade from this... to this. sign up for a venture card at capitalone.com today and get up to 100,000 miles. what's in your wallet? impressive, right?
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>> chris: joining us now are two of the senate if's leading authority on foreign and defense policy. senator are john mccain and in west palm beach, senator joe lieberman. start with what secretary gates
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said on one of the other sunday shows, senator mccain. he doesn't think that libya is a vite tal interest for the yates but we have a vital interest in other parts of the world. would you be sending american servicemen and women in harm's way for what is not is vital interest for the country? >> we said that never again, and after rwanda never again and after the hollow he cost never again. the fact is qaddafi's forces were on the outskirts of benghazi. he said he would go cause to house and kill and murder people. thank god at the 11th hour with the no fly zone, quote no fly zone, we prevented that from happening. now, the momentum has shifted dramatically and the initiative are in the hands of those that are -- the second aspect of it,
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of course, is if you had allowed qaddafi to do that it sends a signal to the other leaders in the middle east, dictators it is okay to massacre our own people to stay in power. and finally, look, this is a moment of historic proportions and this will give us a golden opportunity to help with democracy and freedom throughout the arab world. >> chris: so senator lieberman what should president obama tell the american people tomorrow night? >> well, i think president obama should begin in exactly the terms this general mccain just described. explain why we there are and why is is vitally important, that the united states is part of an international coalition in libya. and there are two reasons. one is that we there are to avert a humanitarian disaster. the fact is that if the coalition forces had not gone into libya now about a week ago we would be on this sunday show bemoaning really crying over a
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humanitarian disaster in benghazi slaughter of thousands of people and we would be asking why didn't obama do something, why did the world stand by? instead today we have averted that but longer term what is happening now, in the middle east, chris, is really remarkable. we have for too long defined the choices in the arab world as between secular dictators and radical islamist dictators and now the people of the arab world said we want another choice, we want democracy and freedom and economic opportunity. these revolutions and tunisia and egypt and the one that started peacefully in libya are the most profound repudiation of al-qaeda in iran who represent the most serious threats to american security in the world today and therefore we -- in going in to libya we are saying we are with the arab spring, we want to keep it going and not let brutal
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dictators respond and massacre their own people. >> chris: nato has now taken command of all aspects of the the libyan operation. given the fact that the u.s. is already tied down in two wars in muslim countries in iraq and afghanistan, is president obama right or wrong to turn over so much of the control of this operation to nato? to arab countries and european countrys. >> as long as the united states does what it always does and we actually lead. the assets, many of the assets that are there are uniquely held by the united states of america. could i just repeat again what joe he was saying and really should be the focus of our attention right now. some have compared it to the fall of the iron empire and the iron curtain and the collapse of the soviet union. this is historic times of enormous opportunity and proportions. and we should be doing whatever
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we can to not have brutal dictators remain in power without the commitment of the u.s. ground troops in libya or anyplace else. >> chris: senator lieberman let me ask you about the another nuts and bolts questions and that is confusion over the mission. the president says qaddafi must go but the u.n. resolution as you know only calls for protecting civilians. so, what should the u.s. do? how do we back up our rhetoric? do we get qaddafi out? do we arm the rebels? do u.s. forces, as speaker gingrich just suggested at least from the air target qaddafi and his regime? >> well, it seems to me that the only acceptable way for this to end in libya is for qaddafi to go and in that sense president obama was absolutely right. you know, though the rhetoric surrounding this action of libya, the diplomatic rhetoric has been confusing at times i think what has not been
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confusing is what the coalition forces have been doing over the air of libya and that is we are taking aggressive action not only to keep their planes on the ground but also to stop their forces from attacking. we have take and side in libya and it is the right-side and we ought to be open about it. we are taking the side of the freedom fighters in libya against one of the most totalitarian regimes that has existed in the world. and qaddafi has to go in one way or another. >> chris: supposedly we haven't taken a side. i understand it is just protecting the civilians. now, the rebels have taken a city and on their way to tripoli. how much should the u.s. do to advance the rebel move on to the capital of tripoli? >> three weeks ago we had imposed a no fly zone, this thing would have been over
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there contribution it is clear that apposer a decisive factor in battlefields of this nature. we found that in world war ii. we should continue to make sure that civilians are not harmed or massacred or killed by qaddafi's forces. the day the french aircraft flew over the libyans stopped flying. this policy has been characterized by confusion, indecision and delay. and it is no wonder, the nature of your question that americans are confused as to what exactly our policy is. on the one hand, they say it is humanitarian. on the other hand they say that qaddafi must go. the president i hope will clarify that in his speech on monday night. >> chris: and would you like him to commit the u.s. to some role in toppling qaddafi? >> i would like to hear him say qaddafi should be either with hugo chavez, with hitler and stallin or the international
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criminal court. >> chris: both of you talked about the arab spring, the extraordinary spread of people power in a lot of repressive regimes. what follows it some the dictators are on our side, some aren't. let's talk about the astonishing situation in syria. a violent crackdown there. but given the fact that president asaud is no friend of the u.s. and iran's biggest ally in the middle east, what should we do about syria? >> let me say first it is important for everybody to understand what we are doing for the world community in libya is what the arab street wants us to do. so finally we are on the side of the massive people yearning to be free within the arab world. secondly, i think the world has made a clear statement in libya which is being heard by both
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arab people and arab dictators elsewhere in the region. i would say with regard to syria that the dictator there ought to and probably is getting a very clear message. if he turns his weapons on his people and begins to slaughter them as qaddafi did, he is going to run the risk of having the world community come in and impose a no fly zone and protect civilian population just as we are doing in libya and therefore he has one choice and that is to negotiate with the freedom fighters in syria to create an entirely different government there or he too will have to go. >> chris: briefly, we are running out of time. are you suggesting that you would support some kind of international coalition to go in and do in syria what we are doing now in libya? >> if saasd does -- if assad
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does what qaddafi was doing which is to threaten to go house to house and kill anybody that is not on his side. there is a precedent in libya and it is the right one. we are not going to stand by and allow him to slaughter his people like his father did years ago. and in doing so we are being consistent with our american values and we are also on the side of the arab people. >> chris: let me switch -- let me switch -- >> who want a chance for a better life. >> chris: let me switch to yemen which is more complicated. the president there has been helpful in the u.s. war on terror. if he steps down al-qaeda in yemen may take not control of the country but may have a free vacuum that they may fill and there are new reports that al-qaeda in yemen is planning terrorist strike strikes. >> let's give moral support to those people risking their
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lives against this brutal regime. every one of these countries is different. i'm optimistic over time egypt and tunisia can make a transition to democracy. yemen is different. it is a huge problem because it is a tribal society. cobbled together the country by the british. and so it is going to be very difficult in some of these countries and frankly i don't know what we do about -- i have to be honest. i don't know what we do exactly abouts about yemen except that obviously the president has to step down and he has agreed to do so. it will be very complicated and complex and in some of these countries that have never known a modicum of democracy, egypt it the key. do not take our attention off egypt, the center of the arab world. >> on a different note. hbo is making a movie about 2008 campaign which i'm sure you are happy to relive. they have cast ed harris to
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play you. i don't know who they will get to play lieberman, maybe brad pitt. what do you think, senator? >> i was hoping. thank you,. >> chris: what do you think of ed harris? >> he is a fine actor. i haven't read the book so i don't think i will be watching the film. >> chris: you know how it turns out anyway, right? >> i'm very aware about its depiction of me and it is what it is. >> chris: senator mccain and lieberman, thank you both for joining us today. always good to talk with you gentlemen. >> thanks for having us on. >> thank you,. >> chris: up next, our sunday regulars on how the president is handling libya and what he should say in his speech to the nation, tomorrow night. where to go for a quiet getway.
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this is how the international community should work. more nations, not just the united states, bearing the responsibility and costs of upholding peace and security. >> this command and control business is complicated and we haven't done something like this kind of on the fly before. >> chris: the president and defense secretary gates with different views about how smoothly the coalition effort in libya is going. and it is time for our sunday group, brit hume, fox news senior political analyst. nina easton of fortune magazine. bill kristol from the weekly
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standard and fox news political analyst juan williams. it certainly hasn't been smooth. as we sit here at week's end nato has taken command not only of the no fly zone but also of the civilian protection mission. qaddafi forces pushed back from benghazi and then ajdabiya and now brega. brit, messy or not, is president obama's policy working out? >> so far, so good, i say. and i think what the president may be noticing here is for all that he is now saying about how we are not really front and center in this mission and it is really a multinational operation and so forth, this shows the inevitablity of american leadership in the world. the ability that was shown to quickly impose a kno no fly zo. was carried out by american war planes with help from some other countries. now, of course, the matter goes to nato control, supreme allied commander in nato is, of
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course, an american. nato itself, its military prowess is heavily american. this is -- this is a sign of the old adage that not much good can really happen in the world without american leadership and the president despite the attempts to disguise it is exercising american leadership. >> nina, the biggest issue now is what do we do about qaddafi. can we afford to allow him to stay in power? do we either explicitly target him or under the figure leaf and there seem to be a bunch of figure leafs here are protecting civilians, support the rebel push west towards sert and then eventually to tripoli? >> you continue doing what it takes to say what president obama said had to be a few weeks ago which is qaddafi has to go. but there is wiggle room within resolution to arm therm the
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rebels and go after qaddafi. the key behind this by the way is that this is a multinational -- a multilateral effort and he has been criticized for that, the president. but i think the explosion in syria and bahrain shows that this should be multilateral. but being multilateral doesn't mean you have to be weak and give a signal that you are not that interested in victory. when you read the presidents it saturday address that is what it is. it is apoll gettic and defensive. i'm afraid that is what we are going to hear again on monday. george h.w. bush built a multilateral coalition in the persian gulf war. you can did he strong and determined and clear about the need for victory and be multilateral and i think that is what this president needs to recognize. >> chris: you bring me to the next subject, bill and juan, and let me start with you, bill, what should the president tell the american people tomorrow night? what should he say? >> he should listen to nina.
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>> chris: he is probably sitting in the white house right now taking notes. >> he should be strong and unapoll gettic. he has had failures though i think the policy is working and may end up working more dramatically than people may expect in actually rolling up qaddafi's forces and getting rid of them. the president hasn't put inth in a broader context. why are we in libya. if this were happening in 1993 and it were a one off insurrectino. this is in the middle of the arab spring. this is a huge moment in the region. what is happening in egypt and syria it would be crazy to step back and let qaddafi reverse not just hope throughout his own country but throughout the region and the president needs to put this in broader context and explain why libya is important. the exception has been the
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libya focused to the exclusion of the region. that is why it is so important that we prevail and i think the movedent will make that mob on on monday night and put this in a broader context. >> chris: juan? >> lots of people ignore the fact that it was a brutal regime and brutalizing its own people. what is unique about this, you you had not the general international community come together as an umbrella. you had the arab league which only goes around trumping arab unity saying oh, no, this is a bad guy and he is hurting our people. he is hurting arabs. and you hear people in libya asking for help at this moment. that is a distinction. i think that made it imperative for the u.s. to respond for just the reasons you laid out. >> chris: but you what does the president say tomorrow night? >> the big problem for me is the question of what happens if qaddafi stays, is is united states willing to live with this. the president said qaddafi has to go but has not outlined the steps the united states is
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willing to take to oust qaddafi. >> that is not precisely true, juan. he has spoken on what he calls the range of other measures that are in place to try to oust qaddafi. these are nonmilitary matters. i don't know what kind of effect it will have. >> freezing the assets. >> freezing the assets and trade embargo. the more benevolent of the auto crates have been easier to topple and that sort of has become the logic of the whole arab spring which is this is going be tough on the more moderate autocrats and less so on the brutes. this libya situation provides a potential example of the idea that it might be just as tough on the brutes because the world led by the united states is ready to step in.
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>> chris: i want to talk about one of the brutes with you, bill, and that is syria. i must say i'm shocked to see what is going on in syria, a very repressive regime. we remember what this president's father did when there were protests in hama back in the '80s. he slaughtered 10,000 people. are you surprised that the unrest in syria has got ton where it is? is that government, that regime in real trouble and what should the u.s. stance be there? >> i think the u.s. stance should be to side obviously with the demonstrators. >> chris: but a torically. you heard joe lieberman talk about a know fly zone. >> put pressure on syria. economic and diplomatic sorts. call the ambassador and encourage other countries to pressure syria. the momentum looks
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extraordinary. rebel forces are moving west quickly. towns are falling every few hours. it is important to take advantage of the opportunity to help the rebels and the opposition as much as possible including with arms. let's get rid of them soon and then turn our are attention to other countries and help the libyans and tunisians maybe the transition. >> mo are the other guys. i don't think you can say they are not involved with al-qaeda or terrorism. we have to be careful of saying we will recognize the provisional government. i think the french have already done that. the u.s. has to be careful. we want to support the ouster of qaddafi. we don't want to put people in place who later turn out to be antiamerican. >> the more involved we are the more are ability we have to shape which parts of that opposition prevail. >> chris: kiwi have to take a break here. when we come back, obama care celebrates its first birthday. but is it already on life
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support? back in a moment.
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one year after the federal healthcare bill was ran through the congress in a partisan vote we now see it has more to do with expanding control by the federal government than actually reforming our healthcare system. >> chris: virginia governor bob mcdonald leading the charge against president obama's healthcare reform plan as it marks its first birthday. and we are back now with the panel. so, nina, one year in, how is healthcare reform working? >> well, things haven't changed much in 12 months. we have a despite by the way, ramped up efforts by the white house which is going to ramp up again to explain the benefits
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of healthcare reform to the nation we have a divided country. half the country hates it, thinks it is government overreach, possibly socialistic. we have another half, though, which supports it or thinks it is not liberal enough. none of that has moved. we do find out, however, it is going to cost more. the congressional budget office this week said it is going to be $1.4 trillion is now the price tag. and we do know. >> reporter: basically $100 billion more because of the cost of the healthcare subsidy. >> exactly. and we know that probably its fate is going to be determined by the courts. virginia is asking the supreme court to take a look at the individual mandate and see if that is constitutional. >> chris: let's break it down before we get to the politics of the constitutionality how it actually works. what do you make of the fact that already the cbo says it will be $100 billion more? do we really have any idea how much this is going to cost and whether it is going to increase or lower the deficit? >> it going to cost more than the obama administration said
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it is going to cost and cost more than the current cbo projection which they are required to take into account certain unrealist expectations that are currently in law. it will cost more if it goes into effect but it is not going to because republicans with the presidency in 2012 will repeal it. i think march 21, 2010 will be the high water mark of big government liberalism and the entitlement states. is the overreach that shows how insane the mooed dern entitlement state has become. in previous entight millionents people liked them once they got passed. that is not the case. the polls haven't changed. they are not changing. it will be a burden for the president in the reelection effort and i think it will be repealed. >> chris: another are aspect and there is a word that has been used, the obama administration has already granted more than 1,000 waivers to a variety of companies to say -- who say it would be a
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hardship to handle all of the healthcare coverage imposed in 2011. how big is deal is that? >> not a big deal. it is for low income workers and and until the public exchanges get set up in 2014. the critics use it as evidence this is amish mosh and we don't know what is going on and look at all of the waivers and it is not working. in fact, it is an incomplete package. some of the elements don't take effect until 2012 through 2014. the fact is i so thoroughly disagree with my col leaks here this morning. i think so much has changed. the polls now indicate i think it was gallup has 46-40, the american people support this healthcare reform effort. >> chris: let me for just one second we will put up a "wall street journal" poll which does show a change. you will see that it shows that now from thy is a split is what nina was saying and you are saying there is another one that shows. 39% think it is a good idea and
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39% think it as bad idea. a year ago the opponents led by 12 points. so even if it is not tremendous support -- >> let me say this point. i think that this is important to note that last year we were all about this is death panels, this is socialism, this is government, this is going to end the world. and what you see is that the american people as we have closed the doughnut hole, we have said you know what, your kids can stay on your insurance until they are 26 until we said you know what, insurance companies can't eliminate people with preexisting conditions. the american people are are coming and saying this is a good idea and republicans had nothing. they want to repeal it. they have no ideas about how to improve the status quo and happen families and corporations that have been under financial siege because of the insurance companies in this country,. >> chris: brit, can you make a case for nothing? >> think of how different this would be now if they were
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willing to incorporate republican ideas. a serious attempt at tort reform for example. he would have gotten not only what he wanted, the republicans would have gotten what they wanted. a bunch would have voted for it. this notion that it as partisan bill would be gone and it would look different from the way it does. i actually in my life have never seen a bill with this much consequence rammed through by one party alone and raised questions about the legitimacy about the maine sure from the start and those questions persist today. even with the poll cited and there are some that say quite different, the thing remains up in the air. i think bill is right in thinking it will be a burden to the presidency. the people who dislike this feel intensely about it and their intensity is what drives people to vote and polls of likely voters as opposed to all adults and so on are the ones most telling here.
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mckinley measure with all that it does and the way in which it was passed will be and it continue to be -- >> this is people who vote for obama anyway. >> how do you know that? >> chris: let me ask the question. independents voted for obama over mccain by 10 points. independents voted for republicans over democrats by 19 points. these weren't obama haters or tea partyers. these were independents. wasn't part of it the whole narrative that obama overreached? >> let's look at the latest numbers now. president obama is rated about 50%. 50%. healthcare is not a drag on president obama at this moment. not going forward towards 2012, which is supposed to be the issue that was going to be used by the republicans to beat him around the head going into the campaign. >> obama needs independents to win. >> and he gets gloss there are a lot of independents that are very concerned about the healthcare reform and are --
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>> but it is not showing up in the polls right now. >> even take the 39/39 poll. is that a good number for your signature landmark initiative? benefits to people. trying to bribe them to support the legislation and it is 39/39. that is not good. >> 39-139 includes people who think he didn't go far enough. he didn't go for the public option. he did come promize. compromise. republicans beat him up. you lied. death panels socialism. >> chris: with you agree that the opposition to healthcare reform is more ferraro vent support?nt than the >> the seniors have been outspoken. they acted out at the town hall
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meetings but you say that will drive them to the polls. >> chris: and they exercise their first amendment right. >> they said what they wanted to say but they were very angry. that was the signature at the moment. >> chris: check out panel plus where our group picks up with the discussion on our website foxnewssunday.com. we promise we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next, we hear from you and a special program note.
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>> chris: time for comments you posted to our blog wallace watch. most of you wrote about the military action in libya. ruth wrote -- >> chris: please keep comments coming to foxnewssunday.com. next sunday we'll talk to paul ryan chairmf